I'm in trouble here... I'm 23 and have never been on a date, never kissed a woman, never gotten close enough to anyone even to hold their hands. Physically I'm not a freak - 5' 10" with no significant defects/inadequacies. I'm a fun-loving guy, I do a whole lot of outdoor activities. I have a good (if slightly twisted) sense of humour, am rarely unhappy and have a lot to talk about.

My problem is that I'm really shy around women who I find attractive, and rather than hide or freeze up, my reaction is complete indifference (I am interested in them, but just can't show it - to the point of sometimes just even ignoring their presence.)

This is compounded by the fact that I'm indifferent to women I find unattractive for that very reason - so I have no female friends, just acquaintances. I'm pretty sure this behaviour is so bizarre that it
warrants psychological evaluation, but I ain't the sort to go to a shrink. Although I haven't any experience to prove it, I'm sure if I could overcome the initial stages of the relationship, I'd be a passionate guy (I am in other aspects of my life) - I really need a
close companion too... What do you suggest?

Need A. Date

Dear Need A,

Dating is all about marketing yourself. If you look at things logically, you can see that you are not going to make your feelings known unless you express them--in word and deed.

I'm overly shy myself but a study I read made me realize I had to express myself more vocally. The study found that people liked rude, obnoxious jerks over quiet wallflowers who didn't say anything.

That was a wake-up call--not to be rude, that is--but to the realization that I wasn't ever going to make a connection if I stayed mum.

As for your lack of experience, don't sweat it. Everything will fall in place with the right girl.

Readers, any better advice? (Please insert Need-A-Date as the subject line.)

Help keep this site helping you!

Hey Jimbo,

I thought I was alone in this world when it comes to my relationship problems. just like this guy, I'm also 23 and have never been on a date, never kissed a woman, never even touch a woman anywhere. I have exactly the same problem as our friend who needs a date. I work here at the university. About a year ago, I met this girl who I completely fell for. First, daily I passed by in front of her desk and noticed that she always looked at me. I never even said good morning to her when I got in for my shift, she might have thought that I had no manners, but it was simply because I liked her that I didn't do it since I'm shy. One day she made the first move (every girl I made friends with, is because they have talked to me first), and told me exactly this words: "Hi, I heard that you are very good in math, can u help me with my homework?" This was a great opportunity for me to look like a big shot, since then our relationship has not gone beyond just saying hi and bye.

Every new guy who starts working in our department notice the cute girl and ask me why is she so indifferent towards them, she never says hi to them. This led me to believe that she is nice with me only. Again, like our friend here, I'm really shy around women who I find attractive, and rather than hide or freeze up, my reaction is complete indifference (I am interested in them, but just can't show it - to the point of sometimes just even ignoring their presence.) Sometimes she stands where I can notice her, perhaps hoping that I will do something. and I will ignore her, is almost as if I'm mad to myself because I like her so much and I'm such a coward. What makes things worse is that everybody else knows I like her, even the girls and the old lady who work in her department. The old lady approached me once and told me: "Have you asked her out yet you chicken?" I'm pretty sure that she tells her that I have a crush on her. I was so close to ask her out once, but when I talked to her she did not look at me in the eyes, it was as if she was shy herself. This brought even more thoughts to my head making things harder. I know that everybody will say, just go for it, go for it. I have also said that to my self "go for it," but is harder than it looks. Its been so long that I believe she must be tired of waiting for me to ask her out.

I just wanted to relate to this guy, I know that guys like me are hopeless, just wanted to comment, I would like to see any follow-ups to this problem that we have.

hopeless?

To hopeless? and shy guys everywhere: It will happen for you. You will meet someone who likes you as much as you like them. But you have to do your part. Put yourself in situations where you can meet women and talk to them: young, old, pretty, ugly, fat, skinny. Get in the groove of being conversational so you're prepared when it really matters. And when it's time, ask her out. If it doesn't work out, get over it. You have many chances to find someone, but first you have to take a chance.

Jimbo

Insightful advice from Eric:

This advice used to tick me off because it never made any sense, but it finally worked for me. I lived to within days of my twenty- fifth birthday with out ever having a girl friend. Everyone told me that "It happens when you're not looking.". It used to bug me to be told that by my dating or engaged friends.

After a long period of depression and self pity over the issue I decided to snap out of it and just focus on things I like. I managed not to worry about it much for while. At the time I
was on disability for an injury I suffered at work, so I really didn't have anything to do during the day. I got into the habit of going down to the local convenience store most every day to get a cup of coffee and a pack of smokes. I had coffee at home, but this got me out for a while in the early afternoon. As I went every day I became a regular. The manager there seemed like a nice girl and I got to talking to her while I prepared my coffee, but never thought much of it. One Saturday I went down there as usual and she came up and started talking to me. We got on a couple of subjects that we both enjoyed and she casually mentioned "We should do that".

Now I'm shy myself and really dense, but she was wide open and I picked my birthday the following week. We went out and had a good time, which led to further dates. Of course, between asking her out and our first date, I got a dream job offer on the other side of the country that I couldn't turn down. We discussed it and realized that I needed this job, as I could never find one like it where I was. We enjoyed the last couple of weeks together and then I moved. Now I'm out on the other side of the country hoping it will work again.

I guess when you're looking for a date or you feel desperate women can smell it or feel it or something. I don't know why, they just do. Also when you feel insecure they can tell and you are unsure of yourself being able to "make the move". If they like you they expect you to show it, and if you don't they feel insecure too. That can lead to the "kiss of death", commonly know as "You're too good a friend...". I guess since they have to spend a fortune on clothes and put on make up and stuff
they expect us to do all the work.

Probably the best thing literally is to be yourself. Once you figure out who you are and what you want out of life, things will fall into place. Women can also sense when you feel secure about yourself and when you're at peace. Talking to them is good, but most of the time it leads to nothing. This may be good because you'd be amazed at how many would make a lousy date for you based on personal taste and chemistry alone. Give it time and sooner or later (mostly later) you'll meet one.

Advice from the University of California, Davis:

Dear Need a Date,
Your story is just like mine. I can't believe there is someone else like me. I was 22, and never kiss or had a boyfriend. Until, finally I met this incredible guy. However, because of my shyness I was so indifferent to him. I pushed him out of my life. When I realized how much I had liked him, it was too late. I knew I had to do something about my behavior. Later, I "marketed" myself (according to Jimbo) and found this nice person I am currently dating. Everything is not perfect, but I have learn from my mistakes and will continue to grow. This is my approach to life. You must take risk, know yourself, and continue to grow in life--"to be love, to have to give love."

And now an offer from a reader--quasi......former shygirl:

I would like you to disclose to me the e-mail address of the need a date guy, so as I could talk to him for the reason that I think it's very sweet how he expressed his dilemma. I too suffer from the case of shyness.... plus we could give each other tips for I have improved and gotten passed by my original shyness (still existent but more subtle) and would like others to benefit from my experience.

Advice from Mr. Bates:

Don't bother with the psychological counseling. I tried that. All they do is tell you to act differently. As if I couldn't have thought of that myself.

Your description of yourself sounds so much like me at your age (I'm 28 now), that it's rather eerie. I was very shy for most of my life. I couldn't admit to needing friends or caring about personal relationships of any sort. When I was 15, a very attractive girl spent
most of the year coming on to me. I liked her a lot, but couldn't admit it. My high school classmates were convinced that I had no sex drive.

Basically, I gradually got less shy, but discovered that I simply don't like most socializing. This makes it hard to meet women. However, I can now easily talk to those I do meet, and can make friends with the ones who have interesting personalities. Women flirt with me when I am around unattached ones, but these are always the ones without interesting personalities. I simply don't care about them, no matter how pretty they may be. The interesting ones, of course, are always taken.

I mention all this because I am thinking you may have a similar situation, except that you don't seem to have yet gotten to the point of finding out that the ones you like are already taken. I thought a warning might be in order, that "marketing" yourself isn't the whole
answer to the problem. I've gotten fairly good at calling attention to myself, and women seem to like me, but marketing does no good when the customer already has what you're trying to sell. Do it, certainly, but don't expect instant results, especially if you turn out to be as picky as I am.

As for the lack of experience, responses from the women I have talked to range from not really caring about my lack of experience to thinking it was very appealing that I'm still "pure". I am told that many women find a man more appealing when they discover that he is not promiscuous. Apparently, the notion that a woman demands an experienced, skilled lover is simply a myth.

Good luck.

Dear Jimbo,

I've never considered myself to be a shy person. Among guys, I'm definitely not. But, since I went to college, I've discovered that I'm terribly frightened by girls.

I've partially gotten over that fear...except when it comes to girls whom I like...Which brings me to my problem...

I met a girl whom I've completely fallen for. Unfortunately, she is rather shy herself which made the task of asking her out even more difficult.

I've asked her out three times now. One time she gave me an excuse. Another time she was going home for the weekend. The other time I asked her the general question: whether she would say yes to any time I asked her out. She said that she really wasn't looking to start any relationships.

Her relationship with me in general has also been kind of weird. We are friends, but on a very casual basis. But, she's that way with everyone.

She really only does stuff with her five roommates, so its not just me. The other thing is, when she and I are talking alone, we get along pretty well, but as soon as her roommates are with her she tends to be completely untalkative with me.

Overall, she doesn't not like me, but she's also not very interested in me either, at least not enough to overcome her reasons for not going out with me.

In all fairness, to myself however, she hasn't really gotten to know me well due to my shyness (The first half of the year I virtually avoided her).

1) Is it possible for her to change her mind?

2) How can I get to know her better and overcome my shyness?

3) Is it possible for me to get her to do stuff with me on a casual basis for starters? If so, how?

4) Why does she ignore me (and everyone else for that matter) when her roommates are around?

5) If I were to be more open about how much I liked her (i.e., possibly do something romantic...or be persistent), would that further push her away or would that help my situation?

Questions, Questions, Questions

Hey Questions,

You are getting totally worked up over someone who you are just not clicking with. Have some self-respect: If she doesn't want to start something, find someone who does.

But don't take my word for it. Readers, what should be Questions' next step?

Jimbo

Here's some wisdom from Betsy:

I don't think you should give up. I am in the same situation. This really shy guy was interested in me and I didn't know him very well so I kind of stayed back, hoping to just see where it would go. I didn't realize that while I was staying back, he was getting the hint that I
wasn't interested. now, I cannot get him out of my head and I really want to get to know him better, but I haven't heard from him again. I guess I was just kind of scared at first, mainly because I liked him and my feelings spooked me. I didn't want him to stop pursuing me. just come out and tell her how you really feel and that you will take it slow and just see what happens. if she still doesn't send any signals, then she isn't meant for you and your too sweet to just keep waiting on her. good luck.

Some advice from Someone Who Wishes This Dude Good Luck:

Okay, this sounds really corny, but it works. Trust me I know. Alright, first you have to get permission from her room mates to go in their apartment or room or whatever. Then, leave a trail of Hershey kisses on the floor from the door to the shower. You should let all her roommates know, though, so they don't think it's for them.

Then, put a beautiful bouquet of flowers in the shower, and write a note that says something like this:
"Now that I've kissed the ground you walk on, and showered you with
flowers, will you please go out with me?"

Like I said, it sounds really corny, but girls love it. I would know. I am one.

PS- If this doesn't work, she is either so shy it's probably not worth it,
or is truly not interested.

All right,

I'm 18 and I have never been on a date. I help coach my sister's 8th grade softball team along with a girl one year younger than me. Two of the girls on the team told me that they think she likes me. As a result I have decided that I'm going to ask her to go see a movie with me.

During the movie when, if at all, should I put my arm around her. Also for the first date is just a movie good enough. And finally, after the date is over and I'm dropping her off, should I kiss her, hug her, or what?

Really Need Help Fast.

Dear Help Fast,

A movie is fine. If you follow it up with dinner afterward, you'll have something to talk about.

As for your post-date actions, just do what feels right.

Jimbo

Do you have any better help for Need Help Fast?

Here are some books that readers have ordered from Amazon.com that might help:

50 Ways To Find A Lover; Proven Techniques for
Finding Someone Special
by Sharyn Wolf (Preface), Katy Koontz (Contributor)

How to Succeed With Women
by Ron Louis, David Copeland

Okay Jimbo, here goes...

I'm a 19-year-old guy and I've never been in any sort of serious relationship with anybody. I didn't go out on a "date" with anyone until this past March, and she didn't even see it as such.

But enough about me, let's talk about my problem...

Back in February of my senior year of high school ('96), the high school band marched in Disneyworld and we got a whole week there. I met this lovely freshwoman, and we stayed together for pretty much the whole week. When we got back to school I kept in touch with her, the occasional "hi" in the hallway, and conversations during free periods.

Eventually I got around to asking for her phone number, which she excitedly gave to me. We talked on the phone about once every three weeks or so (that may not seem like a lot but remember that we were in the same school and saw each other every day).

June rolls around and I'm graduating and we're both wondering what was going to happen when I went to college and she was still in HS. We talked a little over the summer but being the shy guy I am I never got around to asking her out.

Well, as you might have guessed, things slipped away and by the time my first semester was over, we had stopped talking to each other all together. Stupid as I was, I didn't really notice this.

A year and a half goes by, suddenly I'm almost finished with my sophomore year of college, and thanks to a wonderful program called ICQ, someone who was in the same grade as she was decided to find me. We talked for a while, and anyway, before I graduated it was common knowledge around the high school that we liked each other but both of us were too painfully shy to do anything about it. So this kid decides to drop her email address on me. She hadn't had one when I left, so I had no way of getting it otherwise. Looking back I wonder if she didn't put this kid up to it.

And I sat in my room that night with a dilemma - do I suddenly e-mail a high school crush I hadn't talked to in almost two years? I decided that I had nothing to lose and zapped a quick note off to her. Turns out she was elated to hear from me again, and the e-mails flew back and forth getting longer and longer and longer.

When I got back from school I was cleaning out my room at home and found her number.

College having made me much less of a shy guy, I called and asked her to a movie. "Your choice, my treat," I said. At this point she already knew I was leaving after a month to go back to college (damn near failed my physics class, now instead of enjoying my summer I'm stuck here taking it over but oh well life sucks). Wouldn't you know it, she surprised the hell out of me by saying yes. The only catch was she wanted to bring another couple along, which I was kind of opposed to but didn't voice my opinion - in the dating world as in life beggars cannot be choosers - and it was set.

It was Friday, June 19, my first real date (previous ones had not been acknowledged as such by both parties and so I guess they didn't "count."), and the best night of my short life so far. She also expressed to me that she had a wonderful time. I even brought her home 15 minutes before her parents' insanely early curfew.

I made the obligatory "follow-up" call the next day, but as soon as I said "What's your schedule look like this week?" she dropped the bombshell. She said much, but the most effective statement was "I just don't feel anything." But it sounded so fake, and I knew her so well that I figured the parents must have been involved somehow. I didn't say this, however, and just ended the call with my trademark "I understand you just want to be friends," which has started many a platonic relationship for me.

The fact that I'm 19 and a college kid with a car, and she's 16 -- looking at it from a parent's perspective -- they just had to have something to say, you know?

I talked about the incident with many of my friends, with varied responses, running the gamut from "It's her loss and a very big one" to "Call her and demand the truth." I settled for something in between, and e-mailed her my summer contact info up here at college.

We'll just have to see what happens, and I've been playing the field so to speak. Heck, I've been playing the field ever since the onset of puberty. And I still don't know what to do, though I've been leaning towards the "drop it and move on" approach.

Social Idiot

Dear Social,

If I were you, I'd give it one last shot by calling her. The e-mail thing is a little weak, and girls like to be pursued.

If that doesn't work, move on and maybe you'll hook up later.

Jimbo

Got any more help for Social Idiot?

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